Interview Records of Famous Chinese Culture Figures

Author: Liu Wenyong
Publisher:
Publish Date: 2002-05-01
Features: Next, Mr. Chen Huangmei discussed the issue of theoretical research in detail. He said, "If the principle is not upright, the spirit will not be strong. Many issues need to be explained from a broader perspective. Of course, the theory I refer to is closely linked to practice, a theory that starts from practice. Before the 'Cultural Revolution,' our literary theoretical research was already a weak link. After the destruction by Lin Biao and the 'Gang of Four,' our theoretical research faced a tragedy, or one could also call it a comedy." I asked, "Why?" Mr. Chen Huangmei said sadly, "After thirty years of work, we still need to discuss what the characteristics of art are, what authenticity means, and what constitutes comedy or tragedy. At a discussion session, I encountered two incidents that left a deep impression on me. One was when someone at the meeting asked what socialist tragedy is, and someone else said, 'First, we should discuss whether socialism has tragedy.' At that moment, I thought, after the severe destruction by Lin Biao and the 'Gang of Four,' they caused all kinds of tragedies, affecting so many people. Facing such a reality, why are we still discussing whether socialism will have tragedy? This is why! Recently, an article on tragedy was published in Guangming Daily, using Engels' definition of tragedy—'the tragic conflict between historical demands and the impossibility of fulfilling them'—to measure tragic works in our socialist era. This definition was proposed by Engels over a hundred years ago. It would be very difficult for our current works to fully comply with this definition. Others proposed that the protagonist of a socialist tragedy should be a heroic figure. Take the character of Vice Premier Tao Zuxiang in Tao Siliang's A Letter That Was Finally Sent—one could say this is true. However, in the novel Scars, Wang Xiaohua is not a heroic figure, yet she is also the protagonist of the tragedy. How to explain this?! Therefore, theoretical research must start from practice and must address the questions raised by reality. Another incident was the issue of 'typical characters in typical environments.' Some people believed that only heroic figures who fought against Lin Biao and the 'Gang of Four' could be considered typical characters. Yes, many heroic figures who fought against Lin Biao and the 'Gang of Four' have appeared in our lives; they are advanced models. However, take someone like Vice Premier Tao Zuxiang, a member of the Politburo Standing Committee and Vice Premier of the State Council. Without any formal procedures, he was arrested, detained, and exiled in such an environment—how could he have fought back?! During the 'Cultural Revolution,' many of those isolated were not even allowed to read Marxist-Leninist books, let alone paper and pens. How could they fight back? If one does not start from life and rigidly applies textbook definitions, such theoretical research cannot be called anything but dogmatism. In theoretical research, there is one view that holds that 'everything is correct,' leading to rigid thinking; this kind of research can only make our thinking stagnate. Another view follows the principle that 'practice is the sole criterion for testing truth,' discovering and proposing new issues, and promoting the prosperity of creation." I said, "Recently, I read your articles and speech records, and I feel you have raised many new issues and discovered many new ones. These issues seem very important for the prosperity of creation." Mr. Chen Huangmei replied humbly, "These are just my personal observations, and my opinions are far from mature. I am just throwing out a stone to attract jade. Now, we are firmly implementing the 'Double Hundred' policy, and I believe if I say something wrong, someone will certainly come forward to debate with me." At this point, Mr. Chen Huangmei's words made us all smile. It was already late, and considering that Mr. Chen Huangmei was already in his sixties, I had no choice but to bid farewell. September 5, 1979, in Hong Kong (originally published in Hong Kong's Wide Angle in September 1979)
The Legendary Literary Strongwoman—An Interview with Ding Ling
Ding Ling, a familiar yet unfamiliar name, this legendary literary strongwoman, has recently reappeared in the literary circles of mainland China, leaving readers both at home and abroad astonished. This female writer, who once gained worldwide fame with her novel The Sun Shines on the Sanggan River, received the Stalin Literature Prize in 1952, but in 1956, she was labeled as the 'leading member of a counter-revolutionary group,' and in 1957, she was branded a 'rightist' and sent to the Northeastern Reclamation Area. From then on, this talented female writer vanished from the literary scene in mainland China for twenty-three years. Apart from seeing her name in critical articles, no further news of her was heard. Over the past twenty-three years, there have been countless rumors about Ding Ling both at home and abroad, with some even claiming she died in prison during the 'Cultural Revolution.' Yet, official Chinese Communist Party newspapers had never reported any news about her. Recently, a miracle occurred: the female writer, Ding Ling, who had been hidden away for twenty-three years, once again published works and was even re-elected as the Vice President of the Writers' Association at the Fourth National Literary Congress! Like many readers at home and abroad, I was eager to learn about the specific experiences of this legendary literary strongwoman and verify the truth of the rumors surrounding her. For this purpose, during my recent academic visits to Beijing, I visited the elderly Ms. Ding Ling multiple times, as well as her husband, Mr. Chen Ming, and her daughter, Ms. Jiang Zuhui (a choreographer with the China Ballet Troupe), gathering a wealth of materials that deepened my understanding of this literary strongwoman and her works. The editor of China Monthly repeatedly urged me to write an interview with Ding Ling, even setting a challenge: to make it lively! It was hard to refuse such a kind invitation, so I reluctantly chose to focus on the key aspects of my visits to Ms. Ding Ling, Mr. Chen Ming, and Ms. Jiang Zuhui, though whether it truly came to life, as the monthly's editor hoped, 'making readers feel as if they were meeting Ms. Ding Ling herself,' remains to be seen. To make the article more vivid, I decided to start with a reverse narrative!
### I. Ding Ling Moves into a New Home
In early November 1979, to supplement the material for my lecture on recent three decades of Chinese literature, I traveled to Beijing for an academic visit. An elderly writer told me that Ding Ling had moved into a new building. It was said that this building was reserved for officials of deputy minister rank or higher. Later, when I visited Mr. Yao Xueyin at his home, I learned more details. Mr. Yao Xueyin himself had moved into this new building, and several other famous figures in the literary world had also moved in. Having confirmed the news and finding it a convenient detour, I decided to pay a visit to Ding Ling (during my previous visit to Beijing, she had been staying at the Friendship Hotel). Early in November, the temperature in Hong Kong was still as high as 30°C, but in Beijing, it was already the depths of winter. By evening, the wind was howling, and even after putting on all my warm clothes, I still felt a chill. Braving the cold, when I arrived at the entrance of Ding Ling's new home, I thought: Ding Ling had just moved in, and she must still be busy unpacking and arranging her new place. Would my unannounced visit disrupt their arrangements? Should I knock on the door? After hesitating for a moment, I still gently knocked. An elderly woman opened the door for me. She was a relative of Ding Ling. Since she had likely seen me before, she politely gestured for me to enter the living room.